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>> Dan Huot: So joining me here
now in Mission Control Houston,

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it's a real privilege, I have
our veteran flight director

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and our flight director
for Orbit 2

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for the week, Mr. Paul Dye.

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This is his final week as a
flight director here at NASA.

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Paul, first off, I really want
to thank you, coming on and talk

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to me for a little bit,
sharing all your experiences

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with me today.

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>> Paul Dye: Sure,
Dan, it's great.

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>> Dan Huot: So, I
want to jump right in.

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How has this last week felt?

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I mean, you're a
flight director,

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you're a very integral part of
the human space flight program.

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How's this last week
felt so far?

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>> Paul Dye: Well, it's
actually been quite fun.

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You know, I was afraid
that it was going

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to be a little bit sadder than
it has been, but the truth is

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that I've been very, very
privileged to fly spacecraft

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for the United States
for many, many years,

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and flew the entire shuttle
program, and now finishing

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up with the station, and
I did station as well,

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but finishing up, dedicated
a station the past year

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and a half has really been fun
because I've been able to work

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with a lot of young folks and
pass on a lot of the things

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that were passed on to me by
the early Apollo veterans.

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And so the week hasn't been as
sad as I thought it might be.

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It's actually been a
lot of fun just to work

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with the flight controllers
again.

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>> Dan Huot: And we've been
keeping it pretty light.

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We've been having the good
[laughter] quote dress codes

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this week.

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You can see today was Vest Day;
we had an Apollo Day yesterday,

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which was really cool.

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>> Paul Dye: Yes, we did.

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We had White Shirt and Skinny
Black Tie Day yesterday just

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to remind people
where we come from

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and think about the history.

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>> Dan Huot: And let's jump
into your history really quick.

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Now, you started
here as a student

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and in the cooperative program.

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>> Paul Dye: That's right.

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I came here as a student from
the University of Minnesota,

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back in my, I guess it was
my junior year of college,

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after my junior year of college,

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and didn't know what I
was going to be doing.

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But it turned out that the
Operations Group had seen my

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resume and I'd been flying,
I was a commercial pilot

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when I was young, and I'd
been in the diving business

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when I was young in college.

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And they said hey, here's
a guy who knows operations,

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real-time operations,
let's snap him up.

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And so I came here as a flight
controller and worked on some

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of the very earliest
shuttle missions and moved

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on to being a senior flight
controller pretty quickly

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and then was a flight controller

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for about a dozen years
before I was selected

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as a flight director in 1993.

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>> Dan Huot: Tell me a little
bit about your experience

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as a flight controller.

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Now, when you are
the flight director,

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you're overseeing every
flight controller.

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You are the flight controller,

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you're the hive brain,
that's you.

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How did your experiences,
just, you know,

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one of the flight
controllers here in the room,

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how did that really help
you get to where you were?

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>> Paul Dye: You know,

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there probably isn't any
better leadership school

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than Mission Control
here in the frontroom.

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And that's not just
for flight directors,

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it's flight controllers as well,

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because every frontroom flight
controller has a backroom

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of flight controllers that
supports them, and so you have

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to lead your backroom,
you have to learn

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to trust your backroom just
as the flight director needs

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to learn to trust his
frontroom flight controllers.

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You learn how the
business works.

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When we get selected
as a flight director,

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we're given basically a year
of training, and people say,

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well golly, you know,

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you learned to be a flight
controller, and, you know,

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you learned to be a
flight director in a year.

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And I said, no, I learned to be
a flight director in 12 years

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as a flight controller, watching
how flight directors worked

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and learning the
spacecraft systems,

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not just learning the
systems I was responsible for

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but learning everybody
else's systems,

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and that's what made
me qualified,

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like other flight directors,
to be a flight director.

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We were looking outside of
our own responsibilities

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to really look at
the big picture.

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>> Dan Huot: So really,
really being part of a team,

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eventually leading the team.

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>> Paul Dye: Yeah, yeah, you've
got to be part of the team.

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I always joke around with
flight controllers --

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it's not really a joke, but
it's a thought experiment --

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when I'm talking with FCR
frontroom flight controllers

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in training, and I tell them
at some time we're going

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to do a simulation where just
before we start the sim I'm

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going to make everybody in
the room switch consoles.

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>> Dan Huot: [Laughter].

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>> Paul Dye: And the idea
behind that thought experience,

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or experiment, is
to get them to think

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about what would
terrify them the most,

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what console would terrify them
the most, and I ask them that,

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and then I say, well that's
what you need to go study.

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I assume that if you've
made it to the frontroom,

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you're already an expert
on your own systems.

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What you need to learn is how to
interface with everybody else,

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and that's what's
really valuable.

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>> Dan Huot: Now,
let's jump right into,

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you made it as a
flight director,

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now your very first
mission STS-63,

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that was a hallmark
mission really

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in U.S.-Russian relations.

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That was the space
shuttle did a fly-around

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and a rendezvous with Mir.

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Nowadays, you know, U.S.
and Russian space agencies,

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it's an everyday thing.

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What's it been like to
really see the progression

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from that very first, you
know, big partnership step

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to where we are today?

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>> Paul Dye: Well, I'll tell
you the story behind that was

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that it really, I started
working with the Russians before

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that in 1992 we were, there was
a meeting between our president

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and their president, and
they decided that we needed

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to work together better,

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and they thought maybe the
space programs could do that,

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and so our agency head met with
their agency head and they said,

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you know, our presidents said
we should do something together,

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so let's get some
experts together.

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And a very small team of
Americans, myself included,

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went over to Russia and
we sat across the table

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from our counterparts in
Russia, and we said, well,

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our government said we
should work together,

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what do you think we can do
with each other in space?

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And they said, well, we
have this space station

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but we don't have a shuttle,
and you guys have a shuttle

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but you don't have
a space station,

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so maybe we can go
visit each other.

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And that's where it came from.

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And because I was
working on that

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as a senior flight controller
and got very deeply involved

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with that, it made me better
prepared to be selected

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as a flight director, and
lo and behold, I worked all

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of the shuttle Mir missions.

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We had a very small
team of people

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who worked all the
shuttle Mir missions

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because the Russians really like
working with particular people,

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not with a person
with a title but with,

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they want to work with Paul.

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Once they know Paul, they
want to work with Paul.

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>> Dan Huot: They
want to establish

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that relationship,
and [laughter].

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>> Paul Dye: [Inaudible] the
relationship's important.

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>> Dan Huot: So you
became their go-to.

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>> Paul Dye: That's right,

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and there was a small
group of us that did that.

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So we worked, a small group
that did all those missions.

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And there was a lot
of time where we had

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to discover how each
was different

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but we really discovered that
we were very, very similar,

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and I told you that
when [inaudible] sitting

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across a table, you could
point at a guy and say he looks

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like a ground controller...

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>> Dan Huot: [Laughter].

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>> Paul Dye: ...that guy looks
like an instrumentation officer,

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and sure enough,
that's what they were.

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That's the way they worked, is
very similar to the way we work,

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and here today when we work
with them on a constant basis --

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we have Russians here, and
we have Americans over there,

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and we're constantly
talking back and forth --

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we work very naturally together.

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>> Dan Huot: Okay.

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Now let's jump to the end.

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You were a flight director

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on the final shuttle
mission, STS-135.

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>> Paul Dye: Right, right.

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>> Dan Huot: Want to see if
you can go back to that day.

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How much did it mean to you
to really be part of that...

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>> Paul Dye: [Laughter].

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>> Dan Huot: ...flying it
out, seeing the successful end

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of the space shuttle program?

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>> Paul Dye: I think that
you have to understand

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that I'm basically
an airplane guy.

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I grew up as a pilot, and silk
scarf and goggles, and the like,

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and so to me the space
shuttle was the highest flying,

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fastest flying airplane ever
built, and there's nothing

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about the shuttle
that I didn't like.

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I spent a lot of time
flying it in the simulators,

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doing a lot of development work

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with the handling qualities
and things like that.

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To see the program
end was very tough

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because we could
have kept flying

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that bird for a long time.

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I'm talking about
from the standpoint

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of from engineering-wise
and operations-wide,

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we could've kept flying that
and it would've been nice.

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Here, we finished the station
and it would've been nice

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to be able to continue
carrying large loads

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up and large loads back.

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And so that last shuttle
mission was a little tough.

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But the great thing about
it is that we flew it

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as professionals
right to the very end.

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We had people that
were working on console

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that knew they were walking
out the door when we landed,

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and they never let up, not
one iota, until it was done.

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That's how much they
cared about the program.

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>> Dan Huot: And these teams
always shown so much dedication,

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and it's always been
very impressive.

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Now before, you were talking to
me, flight directors think fast.

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>> Paul Dye: Right.

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>> Dan Huot: Describe
that again...

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>> Paul Dye: [Laughter].

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>> Dan Huot: ...because
that was very cool.

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>> Paul Dye: I think one of the
hallmarks of flight directors,

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either by selection or by
training, is that we tend

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to think very, very fast.

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We think of contingencies,
and we think of multiple paths

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and multiple contingencies.

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And before we make a decision,
we've probably gone very quickly

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through our mind, and if
I do this I can get this,

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if I do this I go to
this, and if this happens

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and this happens, and
this happens, then,

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and that sometimes isn't
apparent to other people.

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They just see us go, okay
we're going to do this.

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And then they ask us, well,
have you thought about that,

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have you thought about
this, have you thought --

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yes, I've thought
about all that stuff,

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and I know that this
is what I want to do.

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And that's probably one
of the hallmarks of most

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of the people who've sat
in the center seat here.

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>> Dan Huot: So, for all the
flight controllers in this room

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that are maybe aspiring to
someday become flight director

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and sit in your seat,
what kind of,

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what advice would you give them?

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>> Paul Dye: They've got to get
outside of their own systems,

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they've got to think
the big picture,

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they need to constantly
be thinking

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about how they serve
the overall mission.

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Our goal is two things: flight
safety and mission success.

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We want to make sure
everybody comes home,

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and we want to make sure
we accomplish the mission.

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It doesn't do any good
to accomplish the mission

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and people don't come home,
so you got to do both those.

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And in order to do that, you got
to understand all the systems,

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you have to understand
how they play together,

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you have to understand what
the program wants and how

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that program needs
to be accomplished.

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And today, with a space station,
you have to understand all

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of the international partners,

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and how they contribute,
and how they work.

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It's a vast program,
and you can't do it

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without a great deal of help.

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We sometimes describe
flight directors

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as the conductor
of an orchestra.

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I'm not a virtuoso on
every instrument...

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>> Dan Huot: [Laughter].

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>> Paul Dye: ...I may be
able to make noise with most

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of the instruments,
and one or two

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of them I can probably
play fairly well,

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but we have to depend on
a big team, and you have

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to learn leadership and how

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to develop leadership,
what leadership is.

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It's different than management.

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Leadership is about inspiration,

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it's about inspiring
people to a vision.

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I can identify a
leader in an instant

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by saying, "What's your vision?"

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And if they don't have one,

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then I know that
they're not a leader.

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You have a vision, you make it
so attractive to other people

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that they say, "I got to go do
that," and the leader just needs

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to get out of their way
and help provide them

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with the resources
to get it done.

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>> Dan Huot: Well, hopefully we
have a few more leaders sitting

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here listening in that
are going to take note.

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>> Paul Dye: I think we will.

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>> Dan Huot: Well, as your,
you know, as your time

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as a flight director
is coming to an end,

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was there anything you're
really, really going to remember

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from all the time you spent in
this room, flying the shuttle?

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>> Paul Dye: [Laughter].

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>> Dan Huot: Is there
anything that's really going

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to stand out?

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>> Paul Dye: You know, people
ask me that all the time,

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and the fundamental
answer is I have had

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so many incredible moments doing
what I've been allowed to do

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for 33 years that it's
impossible to pick them out.

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It would be like choosing

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between which is
your favorite child.

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We've just had so many
incredible moments

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from beginning to end,

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and sometimes you
stop and you go, "Wow!

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I can't believe I've
been allowed to do that."

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People who are really enamored
by space, and aeronautics,

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and the like, but haven't been
given a chance to work here,

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would probably give just
about anything to be involved,

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to have been involved
in some minor way

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with one shuttle mission.

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I flew 39 missions as a
shuttle flight director,

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nine of those as the lead.

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How can I possibly
complain about anything?

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Every one was a highlight.

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>> Dan Huot: Well, it sounds

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like you certainly will be
walking away with, you know,

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00:11:15,646 --> 00:11:17,276
just as much as you
put in I hope.

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>> Paul Dye: Oh, yeah.

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It's been an incredible
experience.

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>> Dan Huot: Any big
plans for afterwards?

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Anything exciting you're
looking forward to?

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>> Paul Dye: Well, I've
always been an airplane guy,

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and I'm going to continue
being an airplane guy.

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I'm pretty deeply involved
in experimental aviation,

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00:11:29,506 --> 00:11:30,856
flying and building airplanes,

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00:11:30,856 --> 00:11:33,956
and helping to test
airplanes and work on designs.

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00:11:33,956 --> 00:11:37,376
I'm an advisor with the
Experimental Aircraft

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00:11:37,376 --> 00:11:40,796
Association, I'm
big into operations,

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and safe flight testing,
and things like that.

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So, we have a lot of things
to work on in that area,

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and flying is wonderful.

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>> Dan Huot: Alright, well,
best of luck with that,

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00:11:49,216 --> 00:11:50,486
you know, stay safe in the air.

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00:11:50,486 --> 00:11:52,926
You certainly have a lot of
experience with flying safe,

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00:11:52,996 --> 00:11:55,406
so I have no doubt you'll
continue to carry that on.

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00:11:55,636 --> 00:11:55,866
>> Paul Dye: Okay.

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00:11:55,866 --> 00:11:57,006
Thank you very much.

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00:11:57,056 --> 00:11:57,476
>> Dan Huot: I really want

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00:11:57,476 --> 00:11:59,246
to thank you real
quick, Paul, so much.

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00:11:59,246 --> 00:12:00,996
It's honestly, it's
been a real privilege.

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00:12:01,376 --> 00:12:03,326
It's been great sitting
here with you and the team

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00:12:03,326 --> 00:12:05,686
for your last week, and it
really, it's been an honor.

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00:12:05,686 --> 00:12:06,066
>> Paul Dye: Okay.

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00:12:06,066 --> 00:12:06,716
Well thanks much.

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00:12:06,716 --> 00:12:07,296
We'll see you tomorrow.

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00:12:07,296 --> 00:12:08,486
>> Dan Huot: Best of
luck in the future.